Sensational interview with Leonid
We are always trying to turn life into the achievement of a result and because of this we are losing out in the very process of life
— (Okuneva I.) The first usual question: how do you introduce yourself when it comes to profession? One would say he is a therapist, someone else a consultant, the other a magician.
— I like the joke about the newspaper ad: “I’ve already had a storyteller – I’m looking for a magician.”
— But you probably don’t write about yourself in the newspapers.
— I think I’m a person who helps others understand themselves, because to some extent I understood myself. As much as it’s possible.
— How long have you been doing “this”?
— I have worked professionally for 15 years. I got interested in this profession when I was 20. During my third year in medical school, from where I graduated, I realized that there is more to a person than just the body. At first, I started engaging in alternative medicine, and when I got to 6th year I began studying psychology.
— How did the transition from human anatomy to spirituality happen?
— Through spirituality, through those things that lie beyond our normal understanding, I realized that the scope is much wider, and after studying esoterics, I realized that it does not fully solve the underlying issues which lie within the sphere of psychology. Probably, that’s when I became interested in spirituality. The psychology one could rely on, at that moment, was little. It was early 90s — people began visiting the Soviet Union, at the time, they were the representatives of modern psychology who came to explore the strange country that was. They didn’t’t charge a lot of money, I had the opportunity to attend and listen to the talks. For the first 5 years, I just listened to them.
— Were there any personalities who inspired you so much that you desired to be like them when you grew up?
—There probably weren’t such personalities, but there were things that definitely aroused some interest in me. There was one Champion Teutsch – the founder of psychogenetics, and then, probably, was the first time I heard of the idea that, what is happening to us is connected to what happened throughout our patrimonial system. The idea was quite fascinating. Perhaps, the methods for correcting these states were simple, such as affirmations, etc., but the idea itself had already planted some seeds.
— Were there only ideas or some practices as well?
— I practiced as much as it was possible for one without psychological training. Then I realized that I badly needed it, so in addition to medicine I got a degree in psychology, but it was still not enough, it dawned on me that school psychology and real life are worlds apart. It’s then that I began a new stage of serious training – 4 years of Gestalt- therapy, NLP, Hellinger arrangement, systemic therapy, art therapy, body therapy, Erickson approaches and so on. That is, I find it amusing, I am interested, I’ve been teaching and studying all my life.
— How did you manage to get out of official medicine into an area that normal people consider unconventional and archaic?
— I’m a sixth generation doctor. All my ancestors were either doctors or pharmacists, and by the third year, when I realized that something in this area was not right, I started searching. I started with acupuncture, homeopathy, electroacupuncture, bioresonance, and as a matter of fact, I still use them, they have proved successful on some of my patients. And even then I realized that the scope is wider, everything is much more interesting and fascinating, but this delicate psyche as it is, did not fit within the scope of bodily concepts. I started trying, and in fact now, I am a much more convinced psychologist than any other academic psychologist for one simple reason, I see how much the psyche affects the body, and vice versa. I like to play with it because it’s much more fun, without which probably, it would be quite a boring occupation.
— How did you come up with your method, and generally, can we refer Universal therapy(UT) as a method? What it is?
— Yes, of course. Method of entertainment and time structuring.
— Leonid Talpis’ method of entertainment.
— Is there any meaning in human life? One of the many meanings is to somehow structure the time of your life. So, UT is the way with which I structure the time of my life. And there are comrades who have taken up this method. Universal therapy is not something static, it is constantly changing, expanding, increasing.
— When did it all start, generally how was the idea born?
— I began teaching how to work with metaphoric cards based on the knowledge I had at that time. I, in fact, launched and promoted their use in this country, if I may say so. I taught the use of cards, and people looked deeper and wider into what I am telling and showing than just the cards. Students started asking me to teach them something else. I started teaching all that, and in the process, I began to structure it, as usual creating my own system. When you teach, you begin to understand what you are teaching and what you are doing.
— You gave a lengthy explanation I even understood it myself.
— Yes. I understood a lot about how I work and how I can do it again, so it turned into some basic ideas. In fact, there are some basic things that forms the basis of what I’m doing: there is, certainly, the understanding of Zivorad Slavinsky’s idea, that everything is connected with emotional energies and their blockage, Hellinger’s ideas about systemic orders, there is kinesiology muscle testing, it is a story about the projective methods of art therapy, a lot of fundamentally new ideas that came to me throughout the many years of my work, knowledge from other areas of life, and as a sauce in this mixture I added humor. Psychology is a serious thing in most cases, I can’t get to understand it in it’s plain form because I’m a carefree person. I therefore decided that it would be useful to add humor in the form of provocative therapy.
— And what is more interesting to you – a study of how it works, or practice?
— I am interested in studying and practicing. I am a very curious person; I satisfy my curiosity both in the theoretical and practical aspects. I think up somethings during the seminars, during sessions with my clients, and then I put it all into practice.
— Is there anything that surprises you?
— I discover some new patterns, some new things. People constantly surprise me, because these extremely irrational beings are very busy.
— Do you like experimenting with people?
— Constantly, but only as far as medical ethics allow.
— And How? Are all alive?
— Yeah, everyone’s alive. Well, at first, like all beginning psychotherapists, I tried to do my best for the clients. Then it passed. Thank God.
— What pushes you on and on?
— I believe that a person is alive, as long as he has curiosity. In this regard, I have all the signs of life. And the second very important point is that I love people. That is, when I work with them, I work in the field of the heart. Well, there is also this story, as much as it’s possible to mention, that for sure there is something more than you and me. How can we best call it – this is already a question of terminology, but, in fact, we are part of this Great. And when I work, I work from the state associated with this Great. Probably, better to say so in order not mention someone in vain.
— How much do you need what you teach others?
— This is necessary in as much as I can give people something, and teach them to work more effectively. And I do it with pleasure.
— And do you follow up on the career of your students?
— I get feedback from my students but not all of them. — That’s normal. I keep in touch with some of my students, some continue to learn from me while others go in other ways. What is good about Universal therapy? That it is from the word “laziness”.
— (A. Novikov) While some psychologists call themselves your students, the concept of Talpis school still does not clearly exist. Are you not aspiring for this?
— No. I am not ambitious in this regard. I am a very lazy person, and only in Russian language the word “universe” has a connection with laziness. This does not exist in all other languages. That’s why I study all my life. The more you know, the less you do.
I’m totally eclectic, I take everything that I like. I do not adhere to any framework, and everything that is beneficial is good.
— (Okuneva I.) How is the method developing now? If you look at five years ago, the present and let’s say five years in the future, is there a tendency?
— Well, apart from the basic elements I mentioned earlier, which form the basis of my method, recently new ideas on which the world of universal therapy rests, have come up – this is the method of “Matrix Energetics” by Richard Bartlett. Relying on quantum physics, it postulates a very important thing: that we shut down the world before understanding it. Naturally, what happens in our life is exactly what we imagine about life. It is possible to expand this imagination, and then something quite different happens, which is far beyond our thinking. And the second thing that I really like and that significantly expands the possibilities of Universal therapy is the Theta Healing Vianna Stibal. But, as usual, I have it a little bit modified, because I somehow modify everything I take and supplement it. Probably these are the two most important additions in recent times, I officially declare that I include them in the Universal Therapy, and also teach them as well. In order for people to use the “Universal Therapy” in full.
— In classical schools, there is a notion that a person should spend a certain amount of time and money in order to undergo some kind of therapy. You’ve completed it – everything, now you’re a qualified therapist … what’s it called? – Well-crafted. Is there such a thing in Universal Therapy?
– Universal Therapy is a very humane method, designed to ensure that a person is sufficiently aware, and he decides whether he needs it or not. I deliberately try not to set limits and boundaries for one simple reason. I believe that all the limits and boundaries in many branches of classical psychology are connected with finance. They put a person within the framework of a certain method, and tell them how they have to learn for a long time, and so on.
I believe that one of the highest values that each of us have is freedom. Therefore, I do not create additional framework for people. Moreover, we are still living in a wonderful country, where we do not have to study a certain course for 25 years only to work in that speciality, because ” moving away from it is equated to an escape”. And also, everything that suits me, it is necessary to understand that any psychological techniques and directions that I use should sit well on me, just like a suit. Combine with my personality, with my world-view. I can plainly state that Universal Therapy is not only a kind of therapy, it’s some kind of world-view. And of course, there are people for whom these world-views are suitable.
– And where do these people come from? Probably from classical psychology?
— From everywhere.
— From everywhere? And where do they put the Universal Therapy, what do they do with it?
They either integrate the Universal therapy with what they already know and have learnt, or they take it as an additional method. There are psychologists who completely leave their methods and embrace the practice of Universal Therapy. These are questions of personal views. What is even more important is that Universal Therapy, in addition to being humorous and simple, is quick and effective. I am a very lazy person, I can not stand a long “short-term therapy of 50-60 sessions.” In fact, the tasks of Universal therapy probably coincide with those that exist in other psychological directions, but there are those things that I am ready to emphasize, that is, no-matter what a method is called, nor what happens during the sessions, the only one who decides what to do with all that is the client’s soul. It either takes what happens, or not. And it does not matter for the soul what the method is called. An important point – in order for the client’s soul to absorb what is given, you need 3 conditions. The first condition – what happens, must be true for this soul for it to absorb what is given, second – the client must feel secure and third – it is important that the therapist be in the heart at that same time. Here, in fact, are the basics of Universal Therapy, with which we begin. Well, plus humor, as we already agreed.
— What philosophy do you follow? For example, there is a common model of the subtle body of the human being: “Body, soul, spirit.” Do you have such a concept? Or is the soul alone enough?
– Yes, actually we have all that, just that everyone has their own different terminology. The question is rather world-view. I presume that our soul is here to get some experience. And here I will touch on such a delicate idea as happiness. I believe that the idea of happiness is a virus.
— Because happiness ruins our life. We were told that we are here to be happy, we always compare our life with the idea of happiness and all the time we feel that something is wrong here, and that we were deceived somewhere.
— “And we must press on”.
– In no philosophical nor any religious system has happiness, as an independent value, ever existed at all. In life, we get some experience that our soul needs, and if we receive satisfaction, joy and happiness in the process of this experience, these are our personal problems. And, in fact, Universal Therapy also heals several terrible viruses, from which all of us suffer. We all suffer from the first virus, which is “all the time we are not here and not now,” because we connect our life with what will happen. We are either in the past or in the future. The Universal Therapy postulates it as those viruses from which we ought to be cured. The second idea is that we are always dissatisfied with ourselves, however we are, and all the time we are trying to do something with ourselves. This is also an unpromising path. And we are always not happy with what we have. This is the third virus.
– But isn’t it because of this that we have certain movement?
– And who said movement is necessary?
— (A. Nekrasov) We are not satisfied with ourselves, we are not happy with the fact that we live in the future or in the past, that means we are not satisfied with what we have.
– That is, we can not stand it now.
– The question is, we turn our life time into a search of results, and because of this we lose the life itself. Although life, in general, is a procedural thing, and if we stopped trying to fit into something, it would probably be much easier and more fun to live.
— (Okuneva I.) Is Universal Therapy about fixing something?
— What is it about then?
— About realising yourself. UT is about freedom. Because from my point of view, the psychotherapist or psychologist is like a guide. He leads the client to a certain place and says: look to the right, look to the left. That is, we have two tasks. The main task is to give a person freedom, so that they have choices. The task of the psychotherapist ends exactly at that point where a person’s choices appear. Here we will talk about the fact that what happens to us, 60-70 percent is connected with the patrimonial system, 30-40 with reincarnations, I’m not afraid of this terrible word. There are also funny stories about the fact that there are parallel universes, parallel times, other realities and, generally, we have only 5 percent left to come up with explanations for it, than most people in their lives do – invent explanations. But this has nothing to do with what really happens to them.
— (A. Nekrasov) I also have a feeling that the spirit organizes meaning with the help of previous experience, in different ways, and it does not matter, actually, what we think about it and how we are going to live with it.
– The most interesting is that there is no previous experience either. The story about time, past, present and future is a story again from our level of consciousness, but in reality again all this exists at a time.
– Yes, if we say that there is no time, then there is no experience. It’s like at the same time.
— It’s hard to imagine.
— I encroached on the sacred, time.
— (A. Novikov) You said in the groups, I heard it several times: “Look carefully at each other, you all must have met with each other. And many of you many times, and some in some way were related. “
– And this is a great concept, but besides the theory there are burning problems, well, relationship, right? I want to enter into a relationship, and suddenly it turns out that my one and only was once my son.
— Look, here you can just replace the word “met” with “meet”.
— “Meet”, what do you mean?
— You and your soul are now meeting in different contexts.
— In different contexts?
— Yes. Right now.
— Well, I want to understand what is stronger? Because, nevertheless, the percentage of those meeting, as I understand, is about 60…
— It’s an illusion. Look, the question here is that all this happens simultaneously. Be it reincarnation, patrimonial systems, and so on. And, in fact, the division into these levels is artificial. We are just looking for an entry point. We say, testing: this is from the current life, this from the patrimonial, this from reincarnation, in fact it all exists simultaneously, we are looking for the convenient entry point. That’s all.
— (A. Nekrasov) Did I understand correctly, that in this sense, when we again go into some kind of relationship, we are interested in the actual relationship with this person, and we are pulling up different meanings. Is that so?
— Please allow me to say something terrible, as usual, apologies in advance. There is no love.
— There is curiosity, am I right?
— Yes, there is a task for our souls to be together for a period of time. You can theorize why they need that, but the question is that love is a kind of attraction. It is a way for these souls to be together for a while, to unite, in that case love is secondary to the task.
— (A. Lavrenova) But there are different kinds of love. Is there something that people call love, and another some kind of absolute love?
— Absolute, yes. If you are the creator or feel the creator in yourself then this is a different level of things, but we are talking about human connections.
— Leonid, and what is deja vu in your opinion? Now I’m seated here, and feeling a strong sense of deja vu.
— I have to upset you, you and I have met many times.
— As with all the others?
— Many times. I can show you how much, if you are interested.
— I’m interested.
— Get up please. Do you know the muscle test?
(The muscle test shows that “we met 180 times”).
— Another 20 times, and it will be an anniversary.
— Sorry. Therefore, perhaps we have slightly got bored with each other.
— Then why did we meet again? What else haven’t we discussed?
– Well, sometimes people just go in the same circle, sometimes they may move something further. I do not know. Moreover, I can say that we were relatives.
— As usual.
— I will not upset others.
— (A. Novikov) So, in such a case, what should a normal person, who has suddenly realized that they have such a connection…
— (Okuneva I.) What’s the problem?
— (A. Novikov) The problem is that how can you enter into a relationship, realizing that there is some kind of blood relationship? Isn’t it incest, then?
– Why would you call that incest? In fact, the question is that context influences this one, and therefore our first task, in order to gain freedom in these relations, is to develop contexts.
— What do you mean by “to develop contexts?”
A part of you confuses what was there and then with what is here and now.
— (Okuneva I.) I wanted to ask about how you make discoveries on how it happens. What experiments do you do?
– Well, first I get the information, and then I find some ways to confirm it. The usual way, nothing new.
— Scientific knowledge.
— Yes. Basically, the channel I use is clairvoyance. It just comes.
— And if this is some kind of cognition process, experiments, then how much of it do you perform, and how much are you immersed in the flow of what is happening?
— I’m in the flow. Although there are different situations…
—That’s what I thought.
— Well, am sorry. The question is without a flow, it’s almost impossible to do something with the client, because then the process becomes discrete. You must feel, think, analyze, give out, during which time the situation has already gone far. Therefore, to work with the client from my point of view is possible only with the flow, there are no other options. Just like teaching.
– No, now I meant the long-term process. Discovering of something new, some new experiments, tests.
— All in all. Everything, like a matryoshka, is the same everywhere. What is inside and outside.
— Probably you have the whole year planned out, isn’t it?
— No. I have only my seminars and trainings planned for the year ahead.
— Well, I mean those seminars that you plan to attend, what you plan to read, see, learn.
— A flow implies a certain feeling of where to go. There are some milestones set, but they are not so many. I try my best not to drive myself into rigid frames.
— Do you have professional deformation?
— Yes, of course. You cannot avoid it. From the perspective of classical psychology, in order to feel somebody else, we need, on average, 5-6 seconds, therefore, periodically, in order not to be completely professionally deformed, I turn off this possibility myself.
— Meaning? In order not to…
— In order not to perceive all people as a psychologist.
— Not to scan?
— But it’s not easy. All professions have their own hazards. In psychology, one of the main hazards is that the more you practice it, the fewer the people in whom you are interested. This is our professional hazard. Actually, this is the prize to pay. — That’s normal.
— (A. Nekrasov) And I thought it was only me.
— No. This indicates your professional development.
— In fact, the hierarchy of values is changing. Because if we talk about seriously doing all this, then the world view, the world outlook, is exactly changing, and some things go to the background, some become important.
— (Okuneva I.) Do you have collegial communication? A club united by similar interests? However, I can not imagine it…
— I periodically go to someone to study. And when you study, the most informative state is the path of a fool. I do not know anything, I can not do anything, I’m seated with my eyes blinking. And then later when I go out, no longer wide- eyed, I digest and look where to incorporate what I have learnt.
— From whom did you find interesting to learn?
— Well I’m interested in everything. There are many things that are of interest to me.
— Is there anyone in mind?
— Well, I would listen to Zelinsky with pleasure. I also like Andrei (Vasilyev). That is, they are real people who are close to me in resonance, and I’m happy to see what they have been thinking about, what they’ve done it.
— (A. Lavrenova) That’s pleasing.
— (A. Nekrasov) But here’s a question, I already asked you but I’ll ask again. After all, every psychologist has a psychologist. Usually. How do you yourself get treated?
— With difficulties. The question is…
— Here I come to you and ask, where are you going?
— Nowhere, because no one apart from me knows Universal Therapy. Therefore, periodically I somehow try to do something in other methods, but the whole point is that the world views of the therapist must coincide with mine or at least be close.
— (Okuneva I.) What about the idea of choosing the most disgusting therapist and going to them?
— There are different poses in which you can get erotic pleasure. It all depends on personal preferences.
— (A. Nekrasov) These are Gestalt’s ideas. This is a technique to make everything manifest here and now. It is necessary that it irritates, but not please.
— Well, for this we need our partners, so that someone would keep us in check.
— With partners too, the same theme is peculiar. I mean, are transformations taking place all the time? The partner, if they are an ordinary person, they’ll be puzzled .. like … they do not understand what’s wrong with you. But you change.
— This is also a professional hazard.
— So how do you cope with that?
— How? Either the partner changes, or the system of relations completely breaks down. Everything is as usual. I believe we need separate dating services for psychologists. I’m serious, no kidding. Because our profession implies difficulties in family life with ordinary people who do not practise the same. Well, it’s just that.
— I thought you had some magical way. A pill.
— I just gave you a million-dollar business idea. You slipped by.
— Yes, I’m not talking about business, I’m talking about myself. Lesha has for along time been proposing to start up a business out of this.
— Guys, in fact, it really is necessary, because this is a burning question.
— Well, what criteria?
— Criteria for what?
— For such acquaintances. That is difficult.
— The criteria at least, is that a person can discuss topics that ordinary people neither discuss nor speak about.
Because without talking, discussing or understanding, the chances of finding yourself in a worse off position are large enough.
— (A. Novikov) Well, there is another danger. When you start talking, it turns out that the partners are at perpendicular positions. I’m always right, and this fool…
— This is no-longer a psychological approach.
— More precisely, an ideologically incorrect woman.
— ” Darling, some of your statements annoy me, and this is my problem.”
— (Okuneva I.) Or “I see that everything is okay with you, but what about me?”
— I once invented for myself a very important phrase that helps me: “Life is not a reason to be serious.” Because the only sure way to turn life into complete shit is to take it seriously. And that’s the same way I approach therapy. Therapy is not a reason to be serious. Because humor gives us a lot of resources, a lot of opportunities, extends our framework and gives us the opportunity to feel safe because we can not laugh and strain at the same time.
— And what is your opinion on the ideas of the arrangement community about the fact that laughter in therapy is protection, is it a dumping of energy, a signal about the energy of tragic events, death, something unbearable?
— Apparently, there are different types of humor and different ways of laughing.
— Although, I remember how one good NLP guru put it,” laughter, humor is an infernal acid that corrodes all that is sick and unnecessary.
— Yes. You can spend 30 sessions of therapy on what humor can do in five minutes. From my point of view, nothing works faster than humour. Well, provided that both the client and the therapist have a sense of humor. But it is desirable that the therapist has a black belt in karate or the ability to run fast, in case something does not work.
— You work quite a lot, it’s impossible to book an appointment with you because of the flow of clients. Don’t you get bored?
— How’s that? Why? And where do they come from? How do you do it?
— At the first level I use Cribble Crabble Booms, on the second Brex Pecks Fex, the third level – a very serious spell, be more careful with it – Trach Tibedoh.
— I see.
— Actually, I’m just helping, and the person I help will bring someone else who also needs help.
— Yes, good work is always rewarded with more work. And where do your students come from?
— There are many explanations of where the students come from. But I believe that the field brings them, as usual. That is, I believe in all the information technologies used in IT, but my experience shows, and maybe it’s my limitations that people who come with the field or brought by the field, are slightly different from those that come through advertising.
— (A. Nekrasov) That’s for sure.
— Therefore, the advertisement that I give is just information that I exist. But I have not been engaged, and probably, will not be engaged in the near future, in infobusiness or something similar, I don’t have such plans. Because I’m more interested in people who come with the help of the field.
— (A. Lavrenova) How do we make 300 people come to the festival?
— That’s not a problem. Here the point is, it seems to me that advertisement doesn’t’t, lead people to the festival, it is the field.
— (A. Lavrenova) How do you set it up in the right way?
— There are techniques, there are ways to work with this. First, if we are talking about the business side of the process, it is the feeling that you are selling a high-quality product in which you are sure, which you like, and you know that the price is fair, then there is a balance. Because any ways to lie under the client immediately leads to the devaluation of the process. Now if you open all sites, they are all the same. And it is a story about selling. And for me, your topic is more about “acquaintance with something very important, with something very valuable, with something that really gives opportunities, freedom” – these are the highest values. Yes, it’s worth money.
— (A. Nekrasov) A good approach, it’s very responsive for me.
— Well this is my approach, for me it’s limited.
— Is freedom the main value? Or are there more options?
— There are other options. Relationship is also a very important value. Because through relationships we get to know ourselves, the world, God. Through love.
— (A. Lavrenova) There is this common theme that the three main topics that clients respond to for psychotherapists are relationships, health and money. Is it true, in your opinion? Is it the same for you?
— It’s different. In fact, I have a clear feeling that as the therapist changes, other clients start coming to him.
— (A. Nekrasov) so does it heavily depend on the condition of the therapist?
— Yes, of course. Let’s say that I currently have relatively few clients consulting me on the topic of finance, although there is a lot of business consulting, but this is a slightly different matter.
— (A. Nekrasov) It seems to me that as soon as I touch a topic, it comes to it.
— This is a pattern Psychologists come to my seminar, we discuss something new, and clients begin coming to them concerning these topics, my point is that the field in this regard is quite useful.
— (A. Nekrasov) and then bang, they all disappear.
— (Okuneva I.) And what topics are you interested in now?
– At the moment I’m really interested in my relationship with something Greater. There is this wonderful word with which I’ve been playing lately – how we idolize each other. What is idolize? How to see God in another?
— (A. Nekrasov) Imagine another god, is that so?
— But for this, at least, you need to feel it in yourself. According to my observations, this significantly changes both the relationships and life. And, probably, the word “idolize” is the most important for me now.
— (Okuneva I.) Do you have a super task in your practice?
— I would rather follow the flow than try to create it. Because we all want inner peace, harmony and so on. If you look from this point of view, then any action is the opposite of these states, because it just brings us out of this state. Therefore, my actions are, rather, a reflection of internal processes, and not vice versa.
— (A. Nekrasov) Listen to this question: Do you believe in light and dark forces?
— One of the basic ideas of Universal Therapy, which I preach, on which I’m generally keen, and it is clear that it is not mine since it’s taken from Indian philosophy – duality. For as long as the world is dual, as long as we divide into white and black, these dualities create charges all the time. And it will never end. One of the ideas of Universal Therapy is that we stop making the world dual, and unite it. In my picture of the world, the dualities of “light and dark forces” are shattered.
As soon as we begin to create dualities, the charge builds up, and they become more apparent. Moreover, in order to feel like a Warrior of Light, it’s necessary that dark forces be very dark. Well it is clear.
Sasha, there’s one simple point. Say it: “I recognize all the dark forces within me.”
— I admit that…
— Just say it.
— Yes, I recognize all the dark forces within me.
— I recognize the light forces.
— I recognize all the light forces within me.
— I recognize those forces that do not care about the previous two.
— I recognize those forces that do not care about the previous two.
— And I also recognize them.
— And I also recognize them.
— (A. Lavrenova) I liked it. Brilliant.
— According to the old Russian tradition, there’s always needs for a third one.
— Well, yes, for the process to finish. And from the positions of the arrangements, we need something else that we do not know.
— (A. Nekrasov) It brightened up.
— That’s how we shatter dualities instantly.
— (A. Lavrenova) And how do you isolate these dualities? Is a specific technique?
— Yes there is. I came up with the idea of a rocker. Well, let’s say a bunch of female practices. A woman is taught to be a woman. And so they are taught. With and without the help of jade balls. But the issue is different. Second in this situation, at the edge of the rocker may be the inner man. And in order to become a woman, in fact, you do not need to develop and try to discover your inner woman, but to accept your inner man. And very often, it is not necessary to work with what we are trying to cure, but to see what is on the second side. Just like we did now.
— (Okuneva I.) But we were on the third side now.
— Well, this is also an option.
— (A. Nekrasov) I appreciated it.
— The world is not limited to our ideas about it, and thank God.
— (Okuneva I.) Is there life after psychotherapy?
— Even before and during psychotherapy. Friends, we came to psychotherapy, because we have relevant requests. If everything was okay with us, then why would we need this psychotherapy?
— (A. Nekrasov) Leonid, tell me, when everything within me ends, will it end in practical also?
— I told you that my main selling point is “I slow down the Samsara wheel”. You will cease to reincarnate on this planet.
— And then what?
— Well, there will be some other entertainment. It’s not only here that we reincarnate.
— (A. Novikov) Yes of course. I’m just interested in your picture of the world.
— Everything is energy. This energy takes different forms. And there is something we can describe in human terms, while the other is indescribable, but that does not mean that it ceases to exist.
— (A. Lavrenova) You are saying that you are striving to help a person discover themself, to become themself. And what is it like to “be yourself”, in your opinion?
— Well, in short, it is this feeling that you are the Creator of your universe. Feeling God within yourself. But within limits.
— (Okuneva I.) That is, when it gets to this point, you may as well just finish up with the healing and begin practising?
— In fact, this state is not permanent. Just that over time, this condition becomes more and more stable. At the first stage, we naturally fly out of it periodically. If we’d exaggerate, then, when you feel like a god even in the toilet that means everything is already fine.
— (Okuneva I.) The gods also have their everyday problems, according to the decent mythologies.
— Well, it’s rather a description of our human metaphors projected onto the gods.
— (Okuneva I.) More precisely, problems-relations. They all the time have some sort of relationship fights.
— Irene, I’ll tell you a terrible thing, that within the framework of the Universal Therapy there is an idea that each of us has the experience of being a god. That is, we have such experience, and we also carry these contexts.
— Excuse me, being gods, at what level?
— I did not try to classify it somehow, but you’ve had it three or four times. Do you want us to check? I can even give you the opportunity to remember these feelings.
— I wouldn’t’t not refuse.
— (A. Novikov) Who then demoted her? That’s interesting.
— (A. Nekrasov) She demoted herself.
— I was a god..
– I was a god.
— Once, twice. Then later discounts begin.
— Three times.
— Can you feel that? Just feel it for a moment.
What is changing?
— (Okuneva I.) I’m slipping under.
— Yes, of course.
— (A. Lavrenova) And then what? Does it become uninteresting to be a god and a being, the soul reincarnates and explores some other side that it never used to know? Is that so?
— You know, I like the idea that we are participating in some kind of a great cosmic game. The difference with the computer game is that in the computer one, life is given right away, but here it is through reincarnation and as always, the only question is who has the joystick?
— (A. Novikov) But who? Is it a creature, or a conglomerate?
— Yes, I think that this is beyond our understanding. In order to somehow contact this, we need to put it in words somehow, but no more.
— (Okuneva I. ) Please tell us about your findings in the field of parallel times of life and similar things.
— These are not my findings, it was within the framework of esotericism, and then I ran into it with Bartlett. That is, he officially postulates this within the framework of his therapy, and it really is.
— That is, one soul lives several lives at the same time?
— No, that is another story altogether, but this is from the position of quantum physics rather. The story is about the fact that there is no concept of time as such.
— I know this line of thought.
— I can just show you. Through the feelings. My way of teaching is not to tell theories, although I do that at times, but to give a direct experience of living it, because I do not know the best way to learn something. Do you have any question?
— Well, of course.
— Do you want to voice it? Don’t you? You do not have to voice it.
— Good. Do you want someone to hold you from behind, when you want to fall, or sit on the sofa yourself? How is it more convenient for you?
— I don’t know. It depends on where I will be.
— Look, there are two men who could hold you.
— (A. Nekrasov) With pleasure.
— Good. You fall you don’t fall, it does not matter. It’s just a kind of sensation. Now I’ll just look. We just go into reincarnation. I just think so. Just see what happens to you. What’s happening?
— I do not understand, well… I do not want to breathe. The body is twisting. The back irritates – panting.
— Do not pant.
— (A. Nekrasov) I’m thinking of a crash…
— Take note that I’m not doing anything with you. I just slammed your ideas about how this universe works, and then something begins to happen to you. What – I have no idea. I’m here just as an observer, who is watching this. Nothing else. A very economical therapy, since the therapist does not have to do anything.
— I want to sit.
— Yes, sometimes it’s better to sit. And it will happen to you exactly as much as you need it. Do not say anything, nothing to discuss. And while you are in a clear consciousness, clear memory, and the processes that are occurring are sufficiently global. And only in this way, from my point of view, can one teach, when a person is given personal experience on something.
— (A. Lavrenova) Is it possible to ask about the process of parallel universes? If we exist in parallel in some dimensions, then there is some kind of conditional percentage ratio of where, how many?
— There are different explanations. There is an idea that you are moving between them, and the other is that you live in parallel both here and there.
— I very often have a feeling that there are a lot of some parallel processes, and here is just a very small part.
— Look, moreover, at any point in the decision-making you at least create two parallel universes. One is the one into which you went the way you went, and the other in which you went a different way. So imagine how many of them we create? An infinite quantity.
— But there are some kind of, let’s say, sticking, that a person somewhere is left there?
— Sometimes a person loses orientation, but working with parallel universes is one of the ways of correction. That is, look, let’s say you injured yourself. I can go with you to that parallel universe, where this injury doesn’t’t exist.
— (A. Novikov) Probably, vice versa. There are injuries in the parallel universes, which somehow manifest themselves now.
— No. For example, hit your leg. You got a hematoma. I can hereby see which of the parallel universes doesn’t’t have this, and then take you there.
— Move – is this like moving the assemblage point?
— (Okuneva I. ) Leonid, do you mean the same set? Or there may be a blonde?
— No, Leonid. There Leonid.
— (A. Nekrasov) There is a concept of superposition in osteopaths, in those who work with the body. They also look at different parts of the body as if at once in several different places. Are they related to these things?
— I do not know. I can not say. Superposition is the classical imposition of fields. But what do they mean by this?
— For physicists, yes. But for osteopaths…
— Friends, it’s all about the same thing, just in different words. Just that the time for this came, that’s all. And it’s time for techniques that are much more short-term, much deeper, without snot, without catharsis, without everything else. Because this is not connected with efficiency in any way.
— (Okuneva I. ) What about the relationship with the body? What you are doing is some kind of work with feelings, with the field. And the body?
— I constantly work with the body. It’s just, let’s say, a verbal way of working with the body. In fact, I can easily cause you to change the bodily sensations. Do you want?
— No, thank you. I believe.
— All the same can be done with words, because words encode energy, and one of the bodily phenomena that is in Universal Therapy is the so-called bath. That is, if we work with some energy block and remove it, then the person feels energy – warmth, heat and so on.
— And what is the prescription for a long youth and health?
— Such recipes do not exist. That’s nonsense. This is again socially imposed stories. We are here exactly until we accomplish our tasks. Therefore, neither life expectancy nor any other thing is a criterion. The criterion is only one: how I live with myself and whether I fulfill my tasks. Am I fulfilling them or not. And it is clear that none of us know the purpose. But we have feedback. How much I am satisfied with what is happening.
This is an indicator for each of us. Do you agree?
— (A. Nekrasov) That is pleasure…
— Not pleasure.
— Not pleasure, but satisfaction, sensation…
— The sense of rightness is a feedback from what is inside of us.
— Somehow, probably a little bit so happy.
— Well, we were simply not taught this. Look, at least all our bodily needs were voiced to us. That is, we can work with what we are told and given to us. When you want to eat – you are hungry. The hunger for you is voiced. Moreover, you have been cultured on the purpose of certain parts of the body. Pain lives in the heart. Friends, this is a cultural thing. In other cultures, this may live in a completely different place. In the heel, let’s say. It’s been voiced, which means that you can operate with it. But, as a matter of fact, spiritual needs in our culture are not voiced to us especially recently. Since they are not announced and are not indicated, we can not operate with them, and therefore we are trying spiritual needs.. what do we do? Replace with some surrogates. There is a need for the soul, there is a need for meaning, but since I do not know what it is, I start taking drugs or alcohol or something, or have sex, although the need is completely different. The same happens in young children. If the mother does not recognize the needs of the child, she gives it the breast, in response to all its wishes.
— Or love.
— Well, yes, that is, if it is cold – she gives it the breast. It has wetted itself – she gives it the breast. And then when a person becomes an adult, they just eat whenever anything happens to them. Because they know this integral course.
Therefore, it is very important for us to designate, to explain to our children this part of life too.
— (Okuneva I. ) We do not even have a special dictionary for this.
— There are Russian classics with their incomprehensible editions. “The love, which the Russians came up with.”
— Friends, we have a need, let’s say, one of the highest – a connection with something greater. But it is not voiced in this form anywhere in our culture. It is partly connected with God in various religions.
— But it is prescribed in religion. There too: there should be a connection with God. That’s all.
— Yes, but in fact it is a need.
— But this is also prescribed.
— Yes, but it’s a need. We simply do not recognize it, and therefore it takes very different forms. We have the need to create meaning. Well, we can not live without meaning, but again, it is not voiced. Moreover, they are trying to shove into our minds primitively socially approved meanings with the help of which we can be controlled. Isn’t that so? A person should have a car, an apartment, a dacha. In addition to this, a person must have a partner to meet a number of needs, and all this is socially signified. Is that so? But that’s not all, for why we are here.
— Is it possible to voice, why are we here?
— Feel! If there is no dictionary, then at least feel it.
— (Okuneva I.) But are these different stories?
— Different. But at least from the standpoint of the Buddhist – to get rid of maya – the illusions that separate us and create artificial boundaries. We separate ourselves from something greater, and at the same time we are moving towards it. Within limits we should merge with this greater one. All our problems arise from the fact that we are trying to separate ourselves. And from the position of even the modern – we are part of something greater. Remember that example I give at the seminar that the electrical activity in the cerebral cortex, responsible for the hand, appears before we realize that we want to raise our hand. That is, both of us are peripheral devices.
— (A. Nekrasov) But if it is all known, why are there still so many ways of this psychotherapy? Why is it not recognized there?
— Well, somewhere it is recognized but somewhere not. But to recognize is to completely rebuild the social structure of the society in a completely different way. This is a question of power, agree.
— So it’s about power, isn’t it?
— Including that. Raise the hand of the four of you who can trust God?
— (Okuneva I. ) Me.
— Do you really believe in that?
— I have such experience.
— Good. Let’s check. At least on a three-level scheme. (It means the scheme (I can- I want, at the level of the mind, heart, safety).
On the mental level. Put your hand on your forehead. Say “I can trust God.”
— I can trust God.
(Does the muscle test).
— Yes. I want to trust God.
— I want to trust God.
— All are for it here. At the level of the heart. “I can”.
— I can trust God.
— I want.
— I want to trust God.
— Here, too, nobody is against it.
Now the level of security. Put your hand on your stomach.
— I want…
— I want. (Laughing) No. The body says “no”.
— I can.
— I can. (the same thing).
— Yes. Here is a very interesting story. That, with which the Universal Therapy begins, is probably the theme that is not at all touched in other places, and, at least in an explicit form, it has not been found anywhere. We live in a country where security is paramount, because there has never been security in this country. And in fact, although we do not realize it, it controls our life. And the first, with which Universal Therapy begins, the first half of the first day of training is our relationship with the country. We do not realize how much the country in which we live, and the contexts in which we live, affect us. How much do you think the country affects you?
— Well, I know about that. About 90-80 percent.
— Then psychotherapy looks like some kind of bluff. Imagine, that a client just came to you, weighed down by serious issues, the therapist comes up to them and says: “Now we will deal with personal therapy.”
Human beings are contextual. It must be clearly understood. And that we are completely different in different contexts. We are here, for some reason our soul needed to choose this context and this experience. But in this context, the main controlling force of most people’s lives is security.
— Well, no security – no game.
— Of course, it turns out that we spend most of our lives on security for ourselves, and we must clearly understand that providing this is in principle illusory.
— And what’s the way out?
— The way out? To work on these stories to the extent that it is possible. Accept and feel your connection with something Greater. Connection with your soul, well, and so on. Because, in principle, it is impossible to achieve security. Because you do not know what tasks your soul has and what is agreed there. Do you agree? Do you know the next thought that will come to your mind?
— Nobody in the world knows this. Therefore, the idea that we control something in this life is nonsense. If we can not even control our thoughts. And so, Universal Therapy is based on the idea to finally relax and realize that we do not control anything. And this can give the greatest relaxation possible. You need to raise your right hand and say the magic Chinese word “Husim”.
— Are there instances when something surprises you?
— Very much. I’m like a person, basically.
— To be honest, not particularly.
— The question is, yes, I am a person with reactions, but since there is a part of me that has a certain psychological and life experience, I can somehow manage to do without this. That is, psychology does not make a person lifeless.
— But I have a strange sensation from people who are referred to as “worked on”. I’m not talking about you, but about others. A person is absolutely right and calm. But was not given all the details. What effect is this?
— I do not know what you mean by that.
— That is, he sort of worked on all his basic injuries, nothing is clinging on them anymore, but there is something missing in such people.
— May be. I don’t know. I know for sure that I am alive.
— Yes. This is about some kind of fire, which is not connected with injuries, nor their absence.
— Here we must clearly understand that each one of us has their own engine, just like in different vehicles. One has 1.3, the other has 2.8 while someone else has 4.5.
— What’s this?
— Energy. We are all different. And here we must clearly understand that psychology can range from 1.3 to 1.5, but not more. Because our engine is given to us according to our tasks.
— (A. Nekrasov) Sometimes, you come across some psychologists, they have15 years of practice but you get the feeling that “where have you been practising”?
— Friends, none of us has reached. Therefore, we have very little to measure.
— I mean that we are going, going, going, and maybe there…
— Sasha, we’re moving with respect to ourselves. This is the only criterion. We are not moving with respect to any other person.
— I’m not talking about someone. I mean, do you look at some people. And you think, a person has 15 years of personal therapy, there is something else, improved, got better. And you think, damn, if they got such a result, then maybe me, too…
— You do not know the reference point.
— Therefore, comparisons are meaningless, because we do not know who started from where.
— You can only compare with yourself. Friends, it’s the same as measuring personal growth.
— (A. Lavrenova) Well, there is something in this question, in the sense that over time, and in the process of working out, the person becomes all so calm, and as if he has nothing to wish for.
— No, I do not think so. You’re talking about some kind of ossifying procedure. Most likely, internal hierarchies simply change, and those things that in the ordinary situation of an ordinary person are knocked out, they are no longer getting knocked out, but from my point of view, if we talk about “advanced”, this is a story about greater openness, about great love. Well for me, anyway.
— There is a difference: the case when you suppressed all the desires, and the other – when you are so free from all that you can do everything. That is, as if from the outside it looks the same. On the inside it is different.
— From the perspective of Chinese medicine – wisdom kills desire. Water extinguishes the fire.
— (Okuneva I. ) I observe a growing number of “self-learners” with decreasing therapy time. As if the methods develop in the direction of “less and faster.”
— Time is becoming more valuable.
— Why is all this happening, why?
— Well again we can think of something about this. Just that the time has come. If it can be called that. We can say that the primary needs are related to survival, most of us to some extent would be satisfied and then something more important comes to the surface.
— Although it maybe because I’m very conversant with one topic, I do not see what is beyond the methods of psychotherapy…
— Each of us lives in their world, completely in their universe, and these universes do not interact. Therefore, our view of things is exclusively subjective, from our own universe.
— (A. Lavrenova) Leonid, and what is uniqueness, in your opinion? Is it some kind of an illusion of the ego? Because every person wants to be unique, special.
— It’s an illusion.
— And how do you get out of this? What kind of duality does this have?
— Well this is again the story of being loved.
— And what point does a man’s desire to be unique end? When does it dissolve?
— When he feels part of it. Well, this again is not a total situation, but we come up, dive. Fine. That is, when we cross the road, it is better to be alone. Feel the difference between yourself and the car.
— But can we say that this is also about development and preservation?
— Well, it’s rather about Western civilization, about the ego. In Western civilization, there is so much about ego. There is nothing good or bad about this.
— So this is a western trend?
— Well, of course.
— What about in the East?
— I think in the east it is a slightly different story. There, people really feel more part of something whole.
— (A. Nekrasov) In China, yes.
— (Okuneva I. ) Yes, and in general the whole Eastern philosophy is riddled with this. In the South Korean company where I worked, there was a poster on the wall saying “Not me, but We!”
— Well, the Japanese as well. This has its advantages. Simply due to the fact that we single out the ego and develop it, there are enough standard ways to manage, because it is very easy to control the ego. Even in psychotherapy, there are ways to manage it: you are chosen, you have been trained for so many years. And then we measure to those from whom we underwent personal therapy. “I went to London for personal therapy, what about you? To Penza? Well, you know, these are two big differences. ” Further you will note that almost all the therapy is built on the principle of hierarchy, the first level, the second level. That is, it all goes to building up the ego.
— (A. Nekrasov) And then we compare certificates.
— (Okuneva I. ) Well this is a good thing, in order to create a greater one…
— Milking system.
— A large system where there will be a lot of energy spinning, as well as money.
— And then there goes the story in which Helenger says that belonging to any system is free. If we are ready to pay for it with our freedom. Me not.
— No, well, it’s understandable, but it’s not clear how people live, develop and at the expense of what other systems arise that are not based on these games.
— Well, they also develop in exactly the same way, but they simply do not have such a need for belonging. I precisely postulate when I teach Universal Therapy: friends, I do not need you to belong to me. Yes, belonging creates an egregor and fuels it, but it is not at all necessary to pay such a price, at the expense of something else.
— (A. Nekrasov) In this regard, there is a very interesting question about our collective future in psychotherapy. Well, for example, the last arrangers movement, who are always scandalous, have now become even more scandalous and impossible to deal with.
— Well, we repeat the same story all the time, starting with Greek myths or with Roman mythology. The oedipal complex did not disappear. A father, whose son is born. Then the son should do what? – kill the father or reject, and so on. And in all kinds of psychotherapy – it’s an endless story. Is it different in the arrangements? It’s all the same.
— No, for example in Gestalt, they somehow have everything peaceful. They at least do not invade each other, show due respect…
— Friends, everything is the same everywhere. In any system, the form sooner or later begins to replace the content. Apparently this is the development that is natural. But why through squabbles? The question is very trivial. People who get to the field of love are not so many.
— (Okuneva I. ) And why?
— Once I thought that our life is determined by our soul, its task. What I observed and arrived to is that our soul does not really participate in our life, it is just some kind of bank containing the programs that we must fulfill in this life. But it does not give us special signs, because otherwise we would not have a choice. And there is such an interesting thing that really determines our life – it’s dignity. In this country, dignity is a very expensive thing. And directly related to security. Therefore, if we lived by dignity, our life would be completely different.
But since dignity is not postulated anywhere, people don’t strive to get to it. And all that happens, all these squabbles, wars, the belief that I am the one right, and all the others are morons, is evidence of the fact that we have not yet got to dignity. And the dignity is actually a field-factorial thing, and I show it on the Universal Therapy, and one of the components of dignity by definition, is the connection with something greater. But there is still a lot of things, there is love, ethics and more other important things. And for as long as this does not exist, we will continue living the way we live. But it’s very difficult to afford one’s own dignity, because this is an extremely insecure issue.
— That is, first dignity – then love?
— No, they are interrelated, but just the feeling out of dignity and the choices we make on the basis of dignity are completely different than the choices we make without it.
— And then what is life in the field of love?
— The ability to accept yourself the way you are without disabling psychotherapeutic stories – “but now we will remove this radical and we’ll fix you up here.” And I can just give you these feelings. Let me look at you out of love.
— It is becoming very calm.
— Yes, of course. There lives the same god in you, as in me. Neither better nor worse. And of course I have an official piece of paper indicating that I can make other people be inhabited the gods…
One of the basic issues, which practically does not rise in psychology but is accentuated by Universal Therapy and is studied in the first level is- dignity, how to get to your own. This does not mean that a person will take this dignity from the seminar, but at least he will know and feel about it.
— Well, on this theme about inhabitation by the gods, do you work with all sorts of other entities which do not mind living in people?
— Yes, we work with them, but if we are talking about the first level of Universal Therapy, then we are talking about the fact that in order for something to live in us – there must be some psychological reason. And yes, we work with this psychological root cause. If we are talking about other levels, there are ways to work with it, in particular, using Theta Healing. There are many different good things.
— But is this something that has an effect on a person?
— Yes, but it must be clearly understood that all these entities, like everything else, are needed for something else. And then we just look for the root, which questions I solve that way. Quite often entities give us the opportunity to feel our strength, to which we do not have access without them. This is an option. Well, they leave, because the time has come, and the person has access to the relevant resource or solved the problems, which made this situation arise. And they can now do without intermediaries.
— What do you breathe, what are your resources, what is your inspiration?
— I have my own spectrum. Definitely it’s coming up with seminars, communicating with loved ones, I really love traveling. I definitely can live peacefully without work, that is not my main need, but my curiosity and the ability to create and experiment are important to me. And, probably, this connection with something greater too. I also love theater, sports, but all this has a certain place in my hierarchy.
— What is your travelling style?
— I like to stare. I do not really like walking with a crowd of party comrades, that’s why I mostly come, wander around the surrounding countryside and gaze with all the senses.
— What are your favorite countries?
— Most of all I love Austria for the energy, and Australia. I’m quite happy with two countries beginning with letter “A”.
— But what about the East?
— Well, it also resonates with me, because I remember some of my reincarnations, and they are very different. I have been a priest many times, and it is clear that this influences my current activities, but I have been in the East, anywhere, in Latin America, that is, I remember some things.
— When building your own life, do you have charges between “I want” and “there is”?
— Well, there are, periodically.
— Most people have some secret, well at least for self-learners, I understand that this is the standard scheme – to develop, trying to solve some of their problems. Then problems of a new level begin, higher and higher… And how about you?
— I’m more of an observer. I’m looking at what’s going on. Sometimes I am entertained, sometimes not so much. It depends on how it goes.
The only thing is that the older I get, the more valuable the time of my life becomes for me. Because, if we take away apartments, dachas, cars and other insignificant things from us, the only thing we remain with is the time of our life. And every morning when we wake up, there is a single question before us, how do I want to spend my life time today?
— Thank you for choosing to spend time with us tonight. Are there some tasks that you’d want to spend your life time on?
—I rather watch what comes from the field and select what resonates with me and what does not. That is something, at the level of resonance, a sense of your mission and purpose. However, these definitions are too explicit, capturing all my life, I do not welcome these because they are again constraints and lack of freedom.
— An illusion of control over one’s life?
— (A. Nekrasov) How can one learn not to depart? It sometimes happen that I live for a while in some kind of excellent condition, and then I come across a society and I understand that something is not quite right there. Not right either with you or everything.
— Well departed, and you have the opportunity to return. This is part of the process. Give it a little percentage of your time. Because when you all the time try to return yourself to a blissful state, it becomes difficult to achieve.
— No, I don’t try to get myself back into a blissful state.
— Observe. You departed – just observe. How you departed.
— And as if the goal is not a blissful state.
— Why not?
— I mean that there is no such goal as the blissful state. Sometimes it just comes up, somehow, and then – one phone call, and everything again disappears.
— Observe, and what else can we have? Observe. As a basic principle of Universal Therapy – everything should have a place. Do not try to fight something nor to remove anything. And observation in this is universal. That is, I give this a place and observe. I can joke about this and myself. Short-term loss of one’s own perfection becomes less and less painful each time.
Another of the basic ideas is the topic on compassion for oneself.
— So you have to be compassionate to yourself?
— It wouldn’t’t be bad, only after that can we be compassionate with another person and all living and non-living things on our planet.
— In general, in order to give something to someone, you must first have it for yourself.
— And without compassion for yourself it’s very difficult with yourself. Because we all the time want something from ourselves. All the time we excite ourselves about that. And this generally turns our life into a continuous auto-erotic process.
— (A. Novikov) “Where are you going to, where…”
— And compassion is much better than pity. Because most of us catch up with self-pity.
— (A. Lavrenova) And where is the boundary between compassion and pity?
— Just feel it. These are completely different feelings. Pity is resentment towards the world, to others.
— Pity is about manipulation, but compassion is about love. For me at least.
— Yes, it’s close. For me as well. Close.